Note; many people were involved in this discussion on FaceBook on Barbara's Wall
[Image]
Barbara Ehrenreich The only reason money rules politics is that some people are dumb enough to base their votes on campaign ads. If you're relying on paid advertisements for information about the issues or the candidates' stands, you should be disqualified from voting.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
And what about your own role, Barbara, in convincing people to vote for this warmonger Obama? Right now Obama has us on course for war with Iran and perhaps even China. Your deceiving people into thinking that Obama deserved--- deserves--- the support of progressives was every bit as deceptive as any commercial paid for by these Wall Street billionaires backing Obama. Interesting how you blame others but won't confront your own role.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
And I should point out your buddy Tom Hayden who you partnered with to create the "Progressives for Obama" is now encouraging liberals, progressives and the left to support the racist, anti-Semitic, John Birch Society loving Ron Paul.
[Image]
Barbara Ehrenreich
Hey, I was supporting Obama 4 years ago! May vote for him again, but I will do so stealthily, probably incognito.
[Image]
Lisa Elaine Scott
But this is my point exactly, Alan. What's a voter to do? I will absolutely vote for Pres. Obama because...I have no other choice. I could just stay home as many people will do exactly because they can't stomach either alternative. This is a really sad state of affairs when a third party candidate CANNOT be anything other than a spoiler. And I just want to throw out there that donors not only give to those they want to win, they also give to those who WILL win. In other words, when you have a politician in a safe seat, you find donors give them money because they know that this candidate will win, and they are buying themselves a guaranteed seat at the table.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Well Lisa and Barbara; we have two very good candidates for progressives to support--- Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson. I suggest you put your efforts into supporting real progressives.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
By the way, Barbara; I don't consider your response to be in the way of "stealth."
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Well, Lisa; both Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson are suggesting exactly what you are proposing.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Lisa; I find your "logic" very interesting as you claim I don't understand. On the one hand you say you are prepared not to vote at all and then you turn around and say you aren't prepared to vote for third party progressives. Yes, there is something I don't understand here.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Well, Obama is at this very moment pushing us towards World War III with his new sanctions on Iran... if he is so stupid to take action against China to enforce these sanctions we are into very dangerous territory. I fail to see where Obama's policies differ in any way from the Republicans--- his rhetoric that he learned from Frank Marshall Davis is used to give credibility to his thoroughly reactionary imperialist Wall Street agenda. If one votes the "lesser of two evils," you would have to vote for Mitt Romney simply because his dad was a half-way decent guy hoping that Romney's policies would be more like his dad's if elected.
As for Tom Hayden supporting Ron Paul; here is a link to his own page:
http://tomhayden.com/home/ron-paul-a-force-for-peace.html
Being Jewish, I am insulted that under the guise of "progressivism" anyone claiming to be progressive would provide this kind of credibility to this half-assed, two-bit fascist John Birch Society loving creep--- Ron Paul.
Hayden makes the point, that Obama should be forced to chase Ron Paul on the question of peace. This is the most feeble and pathetic position I have ever heard. It is right on line with the thinking of Norman Thomas who led his "socialists" into an alliance with the fascist Hitlerites who were the America First movement.
[Image]tomhayden.com - Peace Exchange Bulletin - Ron Paul, A Force for Peace tomhayden.comSupport the PJRC for continued original analysis on ending the wars, funding domestic priorities, and preserving civil liberties.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Yes; Bernie Sanders would be good but he won't run. Plus, he will most likely endorse Obama... what a shame.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Six months with Obama was more than enough.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
How about just punishing deceiving liars like Obama at the polls by defeating them.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
Money will always be a problem in politics as long as we have capitalism capitalists are going to find ways to finance their candidates. But, all over the world working people break free from capitalists dominating politics by building their own political parties without backing reactionary Wall Street politicians like Obama.
It seems to me what is being missed is the responsibility of the left to be a catalyst for bringing liberals and progressives together to organize a political party capable of freeing us from this two-party trap that has been built by Wall Street.
Now, along comes Barbara claiming that people are stupid when she is backing Obama and has played a MAJOR role in confusing people through her role as one of the PRIMARY initiators of the "Progressives for Obama" when there is nothing at all progressive about Obama.
In fact, Tom Hayden, who has been AIPAC's "left-wing" poster boy for the Israeli killing machine was brought out of retirement to work with the Pol Pot supporting "leftist," Carl Davidson to initiate this "Progressives for Obama" and Barbara was just as stupid and gullible to fall for this scheme and scam and here she is calling people "dumb enough to believe campaign ads." Is not the "Progressives for Obama's" website one big scam aimed at misleading people about Obama beginning with a picture of Obama prominently placed on their web site insinuating that Barack Obama is the candidate for peace when all he is is one more Wall Street warmonger pushing austerity measures down our throats to pay for what Mark Twain called, "dirty imperialist wars?"
Now Barbara says she will be supporting Obama in some kind of "stealth" sand "incognito" manner. Come on; get real--- your name is right there as one of the founders of the "Progressives for Obama." What is "stealth" or "incognito" about this?
There are two candidates more worthy of her support; the progressive Jill Stein and the liberal Rocky Anderson.
And as for all these arguments about "win-ability;" what is "won" by electing Barack Obama? Obama is the best Republican.
[Image]
Alan L. Maki
I would further point out that it is not like leftists have no base to work from. Here is a recent PEW survey; obviously since liberals, progressives and leftists have a strong current of support for socialism, there has to be the basis for building a political party reflecting this by focusing on the problems and their solutions without stooping to supporting Wall Street's Barack Obama:
http://www.people-press.org/2011/12/28/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/
[Image]Little Change in Public’s Response to ‘Capitalism,’ ‘Socialism’ | Pew Research Center for the People www.people-press.orgOverview The recent Occupy Wall Street protests have focused public attention on what organizers see as the excesses of America’s free market system, but